Morality in America
When studying the founding of the United States, you can’t help but encounter the faith of the nation’s forefathers. Time and again they recognized God’s hand in the shaping of America. You will find Him repeatedly mentioned in their words and documents. And you will find Him having an active, vibrant role in the country’s early history.
Today, God continues His work in America – but it’s in a nation that has clearly lost its moral compass. Every week, “Morality in America” will address the myriad of moral concerns facing the United States and undermining its Godly heritage:
- Sanctity of life – abortion and euthanasia.
- Sanctity of marriage – same-sex marriage and gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender issues.
- Sanctity of the family – divorce, spousal and child abuse, out-of-wedlock pregnancies and absentee fathers.
- Judicial activism (Supreme and lower court decisions).
- Revisionist education in the public schools.
- The perceived rise of Socialism and one-world government trends.
- Attacks and media bias against Christianity.
- And much more…
After you read, remember to intercede in prayer for America – that this nation will return to the Christian standards that once defined it.
Scrambled Scripture?
President Obama’s Bible quote draws scrutiny
by Jim Ray
Attending the annual National Prayer Breakfast, you would think, would be an enjoyable experience for any president, and certainly an event that wouldn’t generate much activity on the political Richter Scale. In reality, nothing could be further from the truth.
President Nixon attended the 1973 Breakfast only to get an earful from Senator Mark Hatfield, who in his prayer characterized the Vietnam War as “the sin that scarred our national soul.” That prayer purportedly earned Hatfield a place on Nixon’s enemies list.
In 1994, President Clinton sat uncomfortably at the dais as Mother Teresa delivered a moving plea to halt abortion. “Please don’t kill the child,” she said. “I want the child. Please give me the child. I am willing to accept any child who would be aborted.”
And at this year’s event, President Obama created a stir by quoting Scripture in support of his plan to raise taxes on the wealthy. But did the president, as some have charged, misappropriate the words of Jesus to make a dubious political point?
President Obama has long said that America’s highest earners should be paying more taxes to help those who are less fortunate. On this occasion, he added a spiritual dimension to the argument. “If I’m willing to give something up as somebody who’s been extraordinarily blessed,” he told the crowd of over 3,000, “and give up some of the tax breaks I enjoy, I actually think that’s going to make economic sense. But for me as a Christian, it also coincides with Jesus’ teaching that ‘for unto whom much is given, much shall be required’.”
Not everyone agreed. Some observers essentially accused the president of serving up a breakfast of scrambled Scripture in his citation of Luke 12. “I’m no theologian,” columnist Charles Krauthammer responded, “but I’m fairly certain that neither Jesus nor his rabbinic forebears, when speaking of giving, meant some obligation to the state. You tithe the priest, not the tax man.”
Many people, President Obama among them, believe that the best way to help the poor is by lengthening the reach of government programs. That, of course, requires higher taxes. Others say it is the role of individuals and the private sector. That requires greater generosity in the form of voluntary giving.
But what exactly did Jesus mean when He spoke of requiring more from those who have more? It’s very difficult to support an argument that He was advocating an expansion of public welfare. In the time of Jesus’ earthly ministry, the government had no role whatsoever in helping the poor, and the parable in Luke refers to a “faithful and wise” household manager. It seems clear that the Lord was reminding His followers that they were personally responsible for what was entrusted to them and that they would be held accountable by God for their generosity, or lack thereof. That stands starkly in contrast to government taxation, which is mandatory and involves no personal decision-making, other than the decision to follow the law…if for no other reason to avoid a stint in prison for tax evasion.
President Obama’s intentions are not in question – he has a genuine desire to help those in need. But the issue was crystalized by the author Eric Metaxas, who also spoke at the National Prayer Breakfast. It is not a question of whether to help the poor, he said, but how to help the poor…and helping the poor is a distinctly biblical idea.
In truth, neither individuals nor government are doing it well. Federal programs are, on the whole, notoriously wasteful and inefficient. Moreover, it is virtually indisputable that in many cases government programs prolong, rather than prevent, poverty. At the same time, however, various surveys have found that Christians in America don’t give much to their churches or other charities, especially compared to past generations.
What can you do? Whatever your view of the president’s application of Luke 12, you can count on the fact that the Lord will hold you personally responsible for what you have done to “love your neighbor as yourself.” Ask God to show you ways – and give you divine opportunities – to help those around you.
If every Christian does that, the impetus for government to do the job of God’s people will quickly vanish.
Jim Ray is a writer and marketing specialist who currently serves as Estate Gift Representative with the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews. He also serves on the advisory board for Street 2 Street, a New York-based charity ministering to inner-city youth through the vehicle of sports. Jim and his wife Stacey have two children and reside in Nashville, TN.
Your Comments
The following expressions and comments are
from our members and
do not necessarily
represent or reflect the biblical or world
views or opinions
of the Presidential Prayer Team.
|
|
To Add - Enter Below
One has raised expectations for a fellow Christian.
I have never had those hopes with this president. The (his religious) foundation is so severely flawed, that there is nothing that could support morality, and ethics to stand under any load of stress.
Blessings,
M.
It seems that scripture lends itself for being used as an analogy; in which case it is not far fetched to inform Christians mandated to help the poor,that God requires of them more to do if they have been granted more. I bet many a church has used that scripture in any appeal whether it be for money or volunteering etc and we have gotten the point and not seen it as inappropriate use of scripture. In my book, the President’s use is right on.
And what is the alternative, if you will, for not helping the poor since it entrenches poverty?
I was just in a book study on How to Help without Hurting by Steve Corbett and Brian Fikkert. We do need to help the poor but in the process our own attitudes towards the poor and the positive things the poor can contribute are important to work on. I suggest you read this book and go to their website [ Links not allowed ] to learn more about helping the poor.
Perhaps the venue for delivery was not appropriate. I still believe the message of Christ is the message of Christ and what he said in Luke 12:48 is what he meant. It’s man that tries to pigeon hole GOD but GOD will not be pigeon holed.
It is not called helping the poor it is about BEING FAIR. I understand that the wealthy do not want to pay their fair share, because otherwise they would not have gotten weathly. Many have gotten rich by having smart tax people who know how to get around the tax code, loop holes. The poor do not have that. Nobody is asking to take from the rich give to poor but when the poor pay as much as the rich on a much lower income, THAT IS NOT A FAIR TAX! I have seen it first hand, someone raised poor, get their money off the backs of the poor and thats another whole can of worms. It is incumbent upon the rich to remove their greed and save this country because there is nothing left to take from the 99% of the people. Its time to save AMERICA. THE ONE PERCENT HAVE ENOUGH!
It’s not just the “poor” that President Obama is speaking of, it also the middle class. We all know that the upper classes have not put in their share in taxes. It does not matter how the President got his point across, the fact is that the upper does not want to pay according to their wealth. Therefore the rich keep getting richer and this money comes from the backs of the middle class and poor. Would you prefer that instead of President Obama quoting Luke 12 he quotes Mark 12:38-44 and Mark 13:1-2 (the Widow’s mite), the point remains that the financial responsibility as well as the social responsibility in this county is inequitable. Overall, please remember the promises of 2 Chronicles 7:14.
Our Heavenly Father is the ultimate example of generosity; he gave his only Son for you and me. We too often look to the government to supply our needs. Where God teaches us in Philippians 4:19 And my God will meet all your needs according to the riches of his glory in Christ Jesus. This doesn’t mean the glory of a government. James 2:15 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? As Christians (lovers of the Lord Jesus Christ) we should want to give to those in need for the glory of Jesus but not through a government mandate. A government that dishes out food and shelter with one hand and on the other kills our unborn and steals our liberties. We are called to give to those in need through His Church that He may receive all glory!
Titus 3:14 Our people must learn to devote themselves to doing what is good, in order to provide for urgent needs and not live unproductive lives.
We all must work as we work into the Lord to honor His great calling!
We must remember a government that gives you everything can also take it away. Are we to bow at the altar of Christ or the government?
We must stand against the one who comes to steal, kill and destroy!
Glory to one true God forever!
If every Christian tithed biblically, we would have no need for welfare, food stamps, Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid. Our President is as out of touch with scripture as he is the US Constitution and Bill of Rights. Jesus’ parable was on giving not taxes. An unknown author once wrote: “You can give without loving, but you cannot love without giving.” This month, this week, are excellent reminders of the value and purpose of such a quote. “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” Mark 12:17b
God is the Creator/owner of all that we have, not the government.
It is interesting that the author cites the lack of government welfare programs as a basis for discrediting the use of Luke 12 in reference to higher taxes for social programs. He was right. To our knowledge there were no GOVERNMENT programs, but the old and new testaments are full of guidelines about how to treat the poor and indigent. These guidelines are still taught in the church, just rarely obeyed in our modern world. During the period of time in which the Bible was written, there were pretty strict social norms that provided for the those less fortunate. They did not need the government’s input, because societal pressure (so to speak) ensured the care of those less fortunate. These societal norms do not exist today, at least not to the point that its making a widespread difference. In my opinion (and I truly offer it humbly), the fact that our society has changed so much and no longer provides for the less fortunate as the Bible states it should, negates the argument that Luke 12 is not applicable to the issue of taxation for social programs. In my opinion, the lack of societal norms in this matter indicates that Luke 12 is highly apropriate. The Bible is, and always will be, relelvant, but for better AND worse, we cannot pretend that the social constructs are the same today as when the Bible was written.
This man twists everything around to fit with his political and personal agenda; honestly, does anyone still believe everything he says? There is a story in the Bible of someone else twisting scripture around to suit his own purpose. That being said, I believe God want our help and generosity to come from our heart, not from funds confiscated by the government for a massively corrupt system.
I think the underlying reason the church gives less than previous generations is because the modern church sees the government as the vehicle the poor are supposed to use to get the help they need. Past generations knew their personal responsibility before God and knew the dangers of trusting in Pharoah to provide for the poor. If we trust in Pharoah to provide for us during the famine, we end up enslaved to Pharoah after the famine is over. We are a nation with our heads trapped in the jaws of Leviathon. If we do not break the grip this big government has around our necks it will swallow us whole. We have personal liberty only so long as we are willing to keep it for ourselves and for our posterity. We use our liberty to bear the fruits of righteousness for the kingdom of God or we lose our liberty to those who come to steal, to kill and to destroy.
I agree with what Esther said. Of course we should help the poor with taxes, tithes and offerings. I just wish the President would apply scripture in his stance on abortion.
Yes we should be helping the poor, but the so called poor take advantage of it. Many can work but are just too lazy to work. They would rather somesome take care of them thinking we owe them. Many buy cigarettes, buy beer, and buy lottery tickets,that is not right? Is that what the help is for? If they can buy this stuff, they don’t need it. It is to feed them and clothe them and keep them warm until they can take care of themselves, not to support their habits and they have to be willing to try to take care of yourself also.
God asks individuals to help those that we see in need. Not the government.
Where we spend our time and money is up to us depending on what God is showing us at the time.
I agree that we can decide to help personally and also through our churches. One thing the President did not mention was that debt is something we should not have and we have debt that will cause us to be subject to the lender.
Since we have systematically attempted to take God out of everything (personal and governmental) in this society, it seems to me that we are getting what we deserve. No one has any sound direction anymore. Th
ey banter ideas around, but without the wisdom from our Creator…all is vanity.
I believe Jesus was referring to Kingdom giving and I have a suggestion that people begin Kingdom Giving Groups where they pool their resources and help those they see in greatest need, either physically or spiritually. We do that through First Fruits Ministry, a group of 10 people, all who donate and participate in distributing the funds on a monthly basis. This has worked for over fourteen years and counting. What a blessing it has been. [[ Link not allowed - removed ]] . Kingdom giving can change the world. I’m not so sure about “Kingdom taxing” but we do pay those as well of course.
The biases of this writer are clear enough, but I find myself troubled by deliberately misleading (and inherently government hating) comments like “In the time of Jesus’ earthly ministry, the government had no role whatsoever in helping the poor”.
Does the writer mean the Roman government? This is clearly historically false. Roman “welfare” programs are legendary. Does he mean (nonexistent) Hebrew government? Or is this just a snide (and inherently ignorant) dismissal of our current administration?
If the Christian community had a shred of the passion Jesus had for economic justice, we would not be having these conversations.
In this forum, could we please put aside political grandstanding and focus either on the word and work of God or on the very real needs of our brothers and sisters?
What struck me the most was that the President called himself a Christian. He has openly admitted on several occasions that he is Muslim. Which are you Mr. President? And to the point of “much has been given…”; Jesus was talking about what we do with what we have here on earth for His Kingdom not for our government.
I am amazed at the number of people who agree that the wealthy are not paying their “fair” share when it is the wealthy who are paying the bulk of our taxes as it is. Yes, there are tax cheats who manipulate their earnings to keep from paying what they owe. But, what is “fair” and who is going to decide? In this life, I do not know the answer to that question, but in eternity, I’m certain of who will decide what is “fair.” We should be vigilant in prayer for God to save us from each other. The blaming, class warfare path we are headed down is not good for anyone.
As a Christian, I am personally moved to help my brother and neighbor. I am fervently against the government TAKING my money and distributing it as they see fit to be a perpetual support for people who are trained to expect to have the fish caught and prepared for them, instead of learning to fish for themselves. It is preposterous that Obama or anyone in the current administration use an analogous remark to Christ, particularly when they seemingly make every effort to remove or ignore our Judeo-Christian principles from public exposure. You would think the historical success of this wonderful country would be a testimony to God’s blessing. Instead, His abundant blessings make people so comfortable they turn away from Him. May God open the eyes of our people and recognize His blessings from the past, and then praise Him for them! It’s a cycle that benefits all!
Another point of government “taking from the (so called) ‘rich’”…Many retirees of middle income who wisely saved a portion of their income throughout the years to use the interest produced to supplement their income to use for living expenses, emergencies, and to leave an inheritance for their children are now affected negatively. The Fed has lowered interest rates on their savings accounts and C D’s to almost nothing to encourage younger people to buy houses they really can’t afford and go into debt over their heads. The result is that the interest on the retirees “nest egg” that formerly could be used by retirees for “daily living expenses and to pay their taxes” has diminished greatly. Now retirees (whose income was supplemented by the interest on their savings and whose homes are paid off) have no choice but to dip into their savings in order to have enough money for daily living expenses and to pay their taxes which in turn continues to reduce their income as well as their savings. Another consequence… this morning’s news(2-16-12)reported there is a new wave of home foreclosures coming (because the low interest enticed people to buy houses they couldn’t afford). The government needs to stop trying to manipulate the economy, cut spending and reduce our national debt … not just keep raising taxes on the rich.
Of all the posts written so far, I have to agree with Morf. Of course the best solution is for Christians to give as we’re commanded in Malachi: at least 10% for the tithe, and offerings in addition to that. I’m blessed to be in a church where most of the members tithe, but I know the national average for Christian tithing is abysmal. Anyone who isn’t consistently paying the tithe and giving offerings as well has no right to complain about our government requiring taxes that help the poor in addition to the many other things they pay for, such as schools. If we Christians won’t take care of those who are less fortunate than we are, then kindly close your mouths and prepare to be taxed. That’s as it should be. Someone has to have some compassion. I’m glad our president does.
It is easy to be charitable with other people’s money.
God, not government, can mandate charity.
The government can only confiscate thru taxation.
Taxation is legal theft if for the benefit of those that don’t pay tax.
The Bible is always a relevant source from which to draw from in any and every area of life. Governing well would include not exclude the Holy Writ. We all can pull a passage out and use for our own interpretation. What I see happening throughout our comments is whether a man (the president) can use scriptures to point to a particular principal, and I say he most certainly can. Giving is Biblical and since he is talking about giving from the vantage of having received in abundance he is on good ground. He was specific in his statement of being a Christian as the source of his beliefs (statement).
The government has taken over the role of the individual’s responsibility of providing for the poor. In fact, higher taxes may be to blame for lower giving to churches and charitable organizations than in past years. Some may assume there is no need to help the poor now because they already have so much given them by the government. It’s also increasingly difficult to discern the needy from the greedy when efforts are made to help the poor. Those receiving government assistance will be first in line to receive from other charitable agencies. Case workers have to be hired with part of the money people have given to help the needy in order to research the true need of those seeking help in order to help only the truly needy.
Luke 12 may not have been the best example of scripture for the President to make his point. It has nothing to do with taxes or money in the context the President is using it. Jesus is using several examples about how to stay ready for his return. One must read verses 41-47 to get the entire meaning. The wise steward has been made ruler of the Master’s household. The Master is Jesus. The Master has “gone away” for awhile. The wise steward/servant will be blessed if he keeps and prepares for the Master’s return. He should be always looking for his return. He has been given a lot of responsibility to run the Master’s household. The wise steward can be made ruler over all if he is prepared for the Master’s return. But if the Master comes back suddenly, and the household is in chaos and and the servant is unprepared – the servant has to face the consequences. He will be “cut in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.” The person who knows to be prepared for Jesus’ return but is not, will face the consequences (“will be beaten with many stripes.”) The person who does not know, but does things that deserve punishment (“shall be beaten with few.”) Luke 12:48 NKJV. “From everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.” Luke 12:48 NKJV. We who have commited our lives to Christ, much more is required of us to witness to the lost, help those in need, and be prepared for his…
Jesus did not advocate for taxes for Rome. Biblical teachings indicate that the widows and children, and Levitical priesthood should be supported by the community. We have an extraordinarily wasteful, corrupt government, whose workers are overcompensated in every way. Biblical tithes were food and grain, and were not used to abort babies, pay for evil and unfruitful embryonic stem cell research, support PBS programs and art programs that blaspheme our LORD’s name, support unions who are not poor, support “green” businesses that fail, or increasingly secularized school systems with poor performance, and anti-Christian teaching.
And if we are to talk about fair share in a biblical sense, since that is where the President has attempted to go, even the poorest shared with the Levitical priests. Remember the woman in the temple? Men were expected to work, not collect a government check for years. The sick were cared for by family, not put in institutions for the taxpayer to cover. The church has been replaced by the government. Many who say they are Christians are happy to worship the Government as their provider – not God. This is idolotrous.
The President’s use of Scripture, Koran and Torah does not indicate he is a believer in Christianity, Islam or Judaism; nor does it sanction his tax-plans, it does indicate he’s willing to quote the name of Jesus Christ, our LORD and Savior who died for our sins, and apply it to his political efforts. Christ in His glory will…
Part of the problem is that churches expect to be exempted from paying taxes when in fact we, as Christians, should be leading the way in all things holy. We should give the most. We should help the most. We should work the hardest. We should show forgiveness as we’ve been forgiven. Then, the government would not need to be involved because we would be the light in the darkness. I am afraid, we have gone astray in this democratic society. “Render unto Caesar what is Caesar and unto God what is God’s.” the hate speech towards our President is not reflective of Jesus the Christ. I appreciate and agree with the notion that God will hold us each accountable for what we have done to help our neighbor. Are we as Christians doing what God tells us to do. If the government took all of my money, wouldn’t God still take care of me? I think so.
President Obama’s quotation of scripture, I believe, were out of context. When I read comments about the rich and poor (remember, we will always have poor among us) and how God richly blesses those that Love Him (and some who don’t). From personal experience I have seen how government hand-outs have gone beyond to a helping hand as it may originally been intended to a full on hand-out. We have two grown adults (unmarried and with a baby) fully capable of working full-time living in our household who seem very content with their hand-outs from the government and the free rent they receive from their parents. We didn’t raise them to work minimally but it’s there for the taking from Uncle Sam, and I suspect there are other lazy people in the system doing the same thing….it’s sad. I often wonder if there is any correlation between Obama’s approval rating and the percentage of people NOT paying taxes?
The President has stated that “We are not a Christian Nation…” He has deleted the word, “Creator” at least twice when quoting the Declaration of Independence. He has close associations with marxists, socialists and communists. President Obama uses his faith as a politcal weapon to try to win votes from the faith community. You can not even began to question how he quoted scripture without asking this question first, “Why is he quoting scripture.”
WAIT A MINUTE! Y’all are off topic! Obama said: “If I’m willing to give something up as somebody who’s been extraordinarily blessed,and give up some of the tax breaks I enjoy, I actually think that’s going to make economic sense.”
Excuse me…WHAT TAX BREAKS is he getting?? And if he is so noble as to give things up…why has he spent so much of our money going on vacation all over the world, the same for his wife and her staff that goes with her. I understand they actually had to hire another pilot because of all the traveling. Y’all are getting way off the point. He is a snake and he has done it again. He twists things and right away you bite. We need to know what he is doing with the money he has been spending NOW! He already has over 84 million dollars. Why is he spending our tax money????
Alvin’s comments on February 16 are exactly right. It’s not the government’s responsibility to provide for the poor – just look at the mess the welfare and food stamp programs are in. Look at the post office. These agencies need a big oveerhaul. And this President doesn’t even go to church. I, for one, am insulted by his comments. Don’t be fooled.
There is nothing that President Obama can say or do that in not critized. If these people know so much about the Bible and the meaning of the scripture, why don’t they do better about following the instructions for all people who read it and claim to be Christians. As a christian, I would think that the application would be to give as the the Lord has blessed you in everything. I don’t have a say as to how much I am taxed. The government decides that. It is depressing that the President cannot refer to the Bible. After all, they crucuified Jesus. What can I say?……
I always thought that particular scripture referred to more than worldly riches, and included the gift of talents, intelligence, creativity given by G-d. That being said, the story of the rich man and the poor man (also Jesus’s parable) speaks volumes to this issue. The rich will answer to Someone, someday for hoarding wealth for its own sake. Better they give of their wealth(perhaps to charity, but not solely to avoid taxes)while they reside on this earth, in order to better all mankind than have to answer someday to the One who made all of us for considering no one but themselves when others suffer. Jesus had no Lexus, no Gucchi sandals, and-no home or place to call His own here on earth. Better to follow that example; IF one is blessed with riches-use that to better the lives of the poor and suffering of this world.
I have to agree with the President. I think the rich should be taxed more, and what harm will it cost them? Nothing but helping those who are in need. What they need to understand is they can’t take that money with them.
I joined the Presidential Prayer Team back in the last term with a President I didn’t agree with on most of his issues.
Now that I can see more clearly the agenda is more on being critical on the new president rather than being proud that our president is ACTUALLY quoting scripture as a reason for his backing of certain actions.
I am starting to believe that more people are praying against him and not actually praying for him, I am going to have to stop being part of this group.
What a wonderfully written article. Everything said was right on and biblically based, which is why so many of the commentors struggle with the truths. I especially enjoyed Morf who was quick to point the finger at others for their biases, but was obvious protecting his/her own political views.
If you had the choice to give to 2 different organizations. One which used 90% of your hard earned money to give to help the poor, or second an organization full of corrupt politicians who vacation monthly on your donations in Martha’s Vineyard, or fly across the US to have dinner with their family with your donations, which would you give to?
I think this administration is truly misguided in how to help the poor. I do agree with him that the rich should pay more taxes, however he is not going after the rich, but the middle class. I never once hear him say about the filthy rich movie stars not paying their share. It is always about the business person who is making all their money by working. He claims the working class to be protected are the union workers, with high wages and full benefits, but never mentioned the Mom and Pops working 6 days a week barely making ends meet. I couldn’t agree more with his policies, if I was able to see beyond the political pandering. I believe this administration wants the people to believe the issue is to help the poor, while the hidden agenda is to revenge colonialism.
It’s great to see so many comments on this topic. Warren Buffet liked Martin Luther King’s statement, which I paraphrase, “Government cannot change people’s hearts but it can restrain the heartless.” Good for you, Esther, Darlene, Elaine and Jean. Of course we are meant to share what we have, and God will provide for us if the government takes more of what we have. To those of us who already tithe, more taxes cannot seem to be such a burden if, as the President wisely said, they are equally shared. Why should Buffet’s secretary pay more taxes, statistically, than he does? Buffet favors fair taxes. What’s the matter with the rest of the billionaires–are they heartless?
Ancient Rome had a government program (annona) that provided food tokens to the poor, similar to food stamps. Also, free lunches were provided to poor school children. Additionally, the early Christian church held all property in common and provided for widows and orphans.
We should be giving to the poor through our churches and as individuals–giving monetarily and offering help in a positive way. I don’t think the poor pay MORE taxes than the rich although they might pay an unfair percentage. Some below the poverty line actually get more back than what they paid in (earned income credit). I think the ones who pay the most unfairly are the Middle Class. If it ever gets to the point that the rich are taxed so much that they have the same amount of money (Net worth) as everyone else, why should they work to get that money? Why not work fewer hours, hire fewer employees and just be less productive overall? who will we tax when the rich stop working as much or quit inventing, producing, hiring people, etc? who will be considered “rich” then?
The bottom line is “What is Fair for a person to pay in taxes” whether your rich or poor – 17%, 20%, 35%?? I think it’s interesting that the Lord only requires 10% no matter if your rich or poor but the government requires 35%+ for the rich and about 17% for middle class and then borrows the rest from China to fund international ventures… As JFK said – “It’s not what your country can do for you but what can you do for your country.” We are all US citizens and should contribute a fair % for the privilege and pride of being an American. Take out the loop holes and dependency programs.
Far too many people badmouth President Obama and hide behind their interpretation of the bible. In doing so, they unfortunately become an example of the hypocritical mobs that Jesus warned against in Matthew 7, verses 1 through 5. “Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.” I think many people are so eager to judge the President, they fail to see other lodged beams that Jesus spoke of
Well it appears the community organizer in chief is well equipped to get the topic headed off into nowhere land. Please focus on the CONSTITUTION for the civil law that holds us together as a republic; and the BIBLE for individual accountability before God. TAXES are governed by the CONSTITUTION which is the RATIFIED consent of the governed. All other voices of “We the People” are the sound of the illegal MOB RULE. Outside of Constitutional authority means outside of the consent of the governed and most especially outside the authority of God. There is no provision in the Constitution for stealing by government proxy because no individual has the personal authority to steal. Thou shalt not steal even by government proxy.
Render to Ceasar what belongs to Ceasar and render to God what belongs to God. Jesus paid taxes! Matthew 17:24-27.
Ultimatly, only God knows who’s he’s saved or not. But how could Obama be a Christian and the most pro abortion Pres. ever?!?
Politically, what most miss is this!…The Gov’t is HUGELY, wastefully, bloatingly over spent!! THAT is not millionaires fault. Were all taxed too much as is!
Gov’t has GOT to be put on a perm. diet/budget!! THey’ve proved for decades they can’t handle money!!
I appreciate the Presidential Prayer Team for allowing and publishing all expressions of issues both pro and con. They do show believe in issues such as pro-life and other issues that reflect believe in our Constitution,but they have genuinely taken the lead in asking prayer for our leaders, our troops and our world. In a way they have taught me to look past whether I agree with a person’s views or not. They have taught me to pray for all people. I find myself praying for leaders all over the world. I do pray that all people know the Crucified Jesus. I still pray for two Navy Men and their families that I adopted in 2001. With my love and prayers for each of you who care enough to express your concern. Thank God for the Team.
I agree wu
Ith the president on his speech at the prayer meeting.
Give the man a chance. He was left in a mess and he has done well
How can anyone in Congress claim to be moral if they agree with abortion, trash each other and seek to achieve THEIR agendas over the Constitution or the people?
We need to step up prayer for Congress and Obama. We need to pray fervently.
We need to reexamine the first amendment that says CONGRESS shall make NO LAW concerning the establishment of a religion OR THE FREE EXERCISE thereof.
Seems too late, but NOTHING is impossible with God.
Yes, Thank God Mr. Obama is speaking God’s word and claims the teachings of Christ as inspiration for policy decisions. You see, I receive this as God revealing His honoring the prayers that many are praying FOR Mr. Obama, not against him. Is he perfect? Are We? NO! Many professing Christians judge his heart (usurping God) and declare him Muslim, Atheist, Agnostic, etc…and “say” they are praying for him to be saved and Christ to “open his heart”..then when Mr. Obama mentions the name of Christ or Bible these “praying” Christians BOO, HISS and CAST STONES at him. This indicates they really don’t want their prayers to be answered, don’t expect God to answer, don’t believe God to answer and are blind to seeing the work God may indeed be doing in his life! Shameful.
Mr. Obama has professed numerous occasions his Christian faith and belief in Christ as Savior. He has refuted every attack and Muslim label. Still some believe spliced Youtube video which edits Mr. Obamas speech at a Muslim American breakfast to state “I am Muslim”. Even with the disclaimer.
Christians do NOT tithe today. Spirit of greed and hoarding preventing the church and community from having resources to take care of the poor, sick, etc… Creating a need for gov’t to share this burden. Millions would starve to death otherwise, while Christians stand by and pray “nicely” for them criticizing the inefficiencies of “big bad” govt. Thank God that our President has compassion to…
Let us take a deep breath and quit calling President Obama a Muslim and a baby killer and that he is trying to redistribute wealth! Could we please just accept the message in the spirit in which it was given? Nearly all of the really wealthy people I know have had the good fortune to inherit a good deal of their wealth…in other words old money. They have the most to invest, the best education, the best property, the best of everything and have become even wealthier in this country. If they had started with nothing like most of us they wouldn’t be wealthy today. I think it would appropriate to thank God for your good fortune and find a way to show your gratitude by helping someone. Twisting a statement and being accusatory diminishes the value of what you have to say.
I haven’t been on this site before, the ones I have read have been prayers. I don’t think this discussion is helpful, it is polarizing for those of us who have joined the Presidential Prayer Team to pray.
Dear Wonderful, Marvelous Lord Jesus. You have given us your all! You died for our sins, and have given us eternal life-now and forever more. Thank you that each of us is responsible to you, we are to give to Ceasar (sp?) what is his and to God what is God’s. Help each of us to be faithful to do what is clear in the Scriptures and what you lead us individually to do. And to pay our fair taxes. Lead and guide our government leaders. Help them not to make laws that are more lucrative to themselves than to the rest of us. O Lord, have mercy on the United States of America! Help us to get out of debt individually and as a nation. Help each of us to work diligently and be good citizens, first of your Kingdom, then of our country. Restore the freedoms that our country was founded on. Bless all the people that diligently pray for our president and for our government. Help us as we vote for a president to be thoughtful, well-informed and wise. O God, Bless America. Amen
If you pay any taxes you are paying your fair share. I guess there is truly something wrong with the tax code that this conversation would come up. The quote from scripture is not for politics, it is from God to His followers setting the standard for our walk with Him. God loves a cheerful giver, hopefully as believers we are cheerful and giving. I pray that the money wasted in D.C./state governments will stop and God, please send more responsible people to every level of government with wisdom regarding our financial situation. God help America before this great country collaspes at the weight of our debt. The rich can not save us. In God I trust not the government. I am thankful to belong and know many other churches who help the poor and those who need help (food, shelter, etc).
I agree Lori… God wants us to be cheerful givers. And as Christians we should be. I disagree with Obama though as to what “fair” should mean. How can it be fair to have one’s money taken from them and then have it go towards programs that are against their core beliefs. And how is it fair to take a higher percentage of taxes from one class and not the other. What IS fair is making a ‘fair tax’ that allows everyone to put in the same percentage of taxes according to what they make. Or, there is the consumption tax which is based on how much you purchase. President Obama has misused the word ‘fair’ in my opinion.
David Wheeler says:
February 16, 2012 at 8:46 AM
What struck me the most was that the President called himself a Christian. He has openly admitted on several occasions that he is Muslim. Which are you Mr. President? And to the point of “much has been given…”;
I know we are not to interact..but I could not let this one go…I need the source refernce of where the President said that he is a muslim..please! Just one reliable reference, please!
In America, the Constitution is “Caesar” not the President, not Congress and not the Judicial branch of the government. The Constitution prohibits stealing taxes from one person in order to redistribute them to other people. The Constitution protects the people from having their property taken from them by the majority, by congressional decree, or by Presidential decree. That is the difference between America and the rest of the world. That is why America prospered until we threw away the knowledge of what it means to come to repentance unto life, to live under the law of liberty and to pursue the author and giver of supreme happiness. Individual liberty is God’s idea. He said, “choose this day whom you will serve” and “thou shalt not steal”. Additionally, it was the money changers that got the whip and the beating. The money changers redistributed the wealth of the people into their own pockets while pretending to provide a benefit for them.
My views on this are simple: money and possessions will not guarantee you a place in heaven; following Jesus will. Jesus lived simply and humbly–without excesses or wealth. He gave all he had and more to help the poor, the outcast, the ones no one else wanted to touch. He didn’t judge them (i.e.”this leper is too lazy or too wasteful to deserve help”); he simply opened his heart and helped them. He preached kindness and generosity, not greed and selfishness. But he also had the benefit of performing miracles to provide food and cure illnesses (and yes, medically speaking, addiction IS an illness). We do not. If wealthy Christians have enough money to live humbly, why do they choose to live excessively instead of giving to their struggling brothers and sisters? That doesn’t seem Christlike, does it? If they are not happy with how the government helps the poor, why aren’t there tons more large-scale Christian organizations dedicated to doing so effectively? Jesus didn’t live his life to gain things for himself. He lived to serve God by serving others.
If we all helped each other, like Jesus instructed us to do, the government wouldn’t have to and shouldn’t be involved at all. When we don’t do what we, as God’s children are told to do, then outside authorities step in. We all know they don’t do well with “other peoples money.” And money is not only the issue. Some people need opportunities to get out of their poverty. So many want to work but have no car or child care. In my experience of volunteering, I’ve noticed there are many people who are very selfish with their time. Time volunteered to help people is more often appreciated and needed than the money itself. We would all rather throw money at people than take time out of our day to help.
Our President needs to read scripture in light of scripture. If he was a great Christian leader of this country, maybe his reference would have been respected. He has not shown himself to be a Christian leader.
The way this country is going, the President and all of Congress is driving the middle class right into poverty as well. A sad situation and we are all letting it happen. What ever happened to all the “blue ants?”
Just finished reading Why Pray? by Dr. John DeVries, missions prayer warrior. “I think of an apartment complex near my home where, out of fifty-four families, only two have fathers. The GOVERNMENT has become the father and husband in those households; the GOVERNMENT is their only security…What would it be like if the kingdom of God came into that complex?” [Caps, my emphasis] The Church has abdicated it’s role in social ministries.
Steve Corbett and Brian Fikkert in the book, When Helping Hurts, asserts that it was the retreat of evangelicals from social ministry that preceded the rise of the welfare state in America. GOVERNMENT did not drive the church away from social ministries. Conservative evangelicals had a “problem” with the theology of social ministry. Evangelicals shied away from the “social gospel.” That helped to open the door in the 60s to Lyndon Johnson’s War on Poverty. Only a revival in the Church of national proportions will solve this problem. When the Church has repented we may experience a national Great Awakening. And this may be the last Great Awakening the world may ever know, when God sweeps hundreds of thousands into the Kingdom and then the end may come.
I’m horrified at some attitudes here.
(1) The “president is a Muslim” rumors are RUMORS. Don’t gossip.
(2) Some have argued that, because they know of some lazy people or cheats receiving government aid, it is wrong for the government to aid the poor. Faulty logic. Do a few hypocritical Christians mean all Christians are hypocrits. Of course, we should cut people off who are definitely abusing the system, but let’s let God be God, the judge of the world, and just obey him by assisting the poor. He’ll sort out the deserving from the undeserving.
(3) If we had been doing a great job helping the poor, the government would never have gotten involved. And, if we want the government to adopt biblical attitudes toward the unborn, protecting them, why shouldn’t it adopt biblical attitudes toward the poor, helping them? You seem to want a godly government sometimes and a secular government other times.
(4) If we’re going to argue about a biblical attitude toward helping the poor, why is no one bringing up the OT gleaning laws? To be truly biblical, shouldn’t we forbid farmers from harvesting every bit of their land and require them to open up the land to the poor for gleaning?
(5) Most controversial: I am prolife now, but when I was first in college, I was not. I was no less Christian; I was just mistaken about an issue. I tend to believe the same is the case here: there are Christians posting here who are mistaken about the government’s role in helping the…
I supposedly still had words left, but got cut off on my final point:
There are Christians posting here who are mistaken about the government’s role in helping the poor, but they are still Christians. Praise God for his grace and mercy to us!